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12/18/2010 01:10 PM

CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by Petro_Drlg_Engineer (1385) Joined on 06/18/2010 Posts: 230

Reposted from reply on my blog as this is likely a better place for general discussion.

Freely admit am still working to refine and improve my investment skills.  Do others exactly follow IBD - William O'Neil CANSLIM system?  Seems there has been lots of discussion on the IBD forums, with some advising to follow it exactly, while others don't seem to be able to generate very profitable investment returns with the system.  Others thoughts - results over several years - market cycles?

Previously was active on CoVestor.com, and followed a couple people that reported they follow the IBD model.  Peter is a former Microsoft manager, and his verified return is a negative since inception.  So am struggling to justify putting in the time and effort to exactly learn and follow a system that others aren't able to generate the reported "annual gains of +100% per year", that IBD puts in the books and success columns.  Have others been able to routinely achieve a +100% per year gain?  Others thoughts or recommendations?

What percentage of serious investors, with a several hundred thousand to low million dollar portfolio; are able to routinely generate returns of greater than 50% per year?  Greater than 25%  What is the target for others?  Is it per Ken Fisher of Forbes - simply to have a return greater than your benchmark.  ie Greater than S&P 500,

Seems it's been reported that IBD tried and failed to manage a mutual fund, and Gil Morales even authored a book with Mr. O'Neil, but his reported investment management fund results were not that impressive last time I checked.  Anyone care to offer why the vastly different results?  Market conditions and first run was during one of the best bull markets in history and lately hasn't been such a strong market?

Am actively working full time to improve my investment returns as recently retired from petroleum consulting.  Have either been very luck or skillful as am up over 100% per year for 2009 and 2010, but have not been investing per CANSLIM models.  My portfolio has increased sufficiently that now need to do more than buy and hold a few stocks.  Therefore since CANSLIM is widely respected am working to evaluate and see if it's possible to have someone with more experience and skills essentially mentor me.  Am willing to put in the effort, and resources as evidenced by an annual subscription to e-IBD and MarketSmith.  Just trying to be more diligent and build my own set of investing rules to follow.  Any recommendations - routines - suggestions are much appreciate from anyone with years of proven success.

Seems IBD keeps changing as the IBD 100 will soon become the IBD 50, but they are also now marketing the IBD Growth 250.  So if less is better, how is 250 better than 50?  Or is this an attempt to develop more products, in hopes to generate more net income?  Seems the switch from DGO to MS involved a roughly 25% increase in price.  But is what's good for IBD - MS, good for the individual investor?  Not trying to throw rocks, just trying to understand how others use these tools to increase investment returns.

Best Regards;

PDE

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12/18/2010 01:29 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by Petro_Drlg_Engineer (1385) Joined on 06/18/2010 Posts: 230

In today's (12-20-10) IBD, page 22, lower left is a ad for CAN SLIM Private Clients investment management fund, quoting "CAN SLIM® Private Clients is
that money management
company. We build and manage
portfolios for clients using the
CAN SLIM® System.".

They opened in 2006, but are quoting returns as follows:

http://www.canslimpc.com/canslimperformance.html

Annual Rate of Return (2001 to 2009):

CANSLIM:  13.83% Net of fees

S&P 500: -.53%

My question:  Do individual investors on here average significantly better than the roughly 14% gain?

Thanks;

PDE



12/18/2010 08:02 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by TMalagis (7585) Joined on 04/27/2010 Posts: 759

Petro,

Yes you sure can. Why leave yourself to someone else's whim, if your learning this and practicing it? Should you be new to IBD. Go slow, Learn constantly, and make use of the training as well as your new peer group. We always attempt to be helpful as well as respectful.

-Tom



12/19/2010 09:32 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by dharby (60) Joined on 04/21/2010 Posts: 6

the CANSLIM method is legit...but not easy and not for everyone.  my annualized average is a bit over 50% since 1997



12/19/2010 03:23 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by broberto (6215) Joined on 09/22/2010 Posts: 379

Hi Petro,  You know what they say.  There's more than one way to skin a cat, and the same goes for trading.  It really depends what you are comfortable with.  I have an account with CANSLIM PC and they are not following O'Neils method to the "T", fundamentally , technically and on stops.  I haven't achieved 50% a year yet but hope to.  You have to start small and honestly for me I paper traded until I was comfortable and consistent.  There's nothing wrong with taking what you learned in the past and apply it what you are doing now. I like IBD's method and think reading charts along with the fundamentals is a great strategy. Checkout Brigos Capital run by Kieran McDonough who taught for IBD.  I took the second charting class and have notes on how to manage an account with 100k in it.  Will look for it and post for you if you like Regards, Brian



12/21/2010 11:11 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by MARKETSMITH (12090) Joined on 06/14/2010 Posts: 939

@Petro_Drlg_Engineer: MarketSmith and Investor’s Business Daily are affiliate companies, but our operations are separate. The Growth 250 is not an Investor’s Business Daily product; rather, it is a MarketSmith product. The Growth 250 was designed to be a starting point for the research routine that includes a wide variety of the characteristics of strength that we look for. The IBD 100, on the other hand, was designed to capture the stocks with the greatest number of these elements. While the IBD 100 is a very good list, the MarketSmith Growth 250 is more comprehensive and it casts a wider net. The list also fluctuates based on the overall health of the market. Lastly, there is no additional cost on the switch from the Daily Graphs Complete Equity Research Package to MarketSmith and, with MarketSmith, you receive much more comprehensive data. If you have any further questions or would like additional clarification, please contact us at 800-424-9033 or email us at reachus@marketsmith.com.



12/21/2010 03:00 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by se_swadley (795) Joined on 06/12/2010 Posts: 131

I went to my first O'Neil advanced workshop in 1995--taught entirely by William O'Neil and David Ryan. Subscribed to Daily Graphs thereafter in combination with my IBD subscription. I worked at it very  part time until 2006-full time and paying my bills from my capital since then.

You have to be in the market applying the research techniques correctly at ther right time to make big money,know how to get out at the right time-sell rules -to conserve your gains and do it all over again as the market cycles. I f you want a formula, than CANSLIM success is not in the cards for you. One must deal with your own psychology as a trader along with constantly evolving market conditions

 I have run an IBD Meetup since 2005 and see all types show up at the meetings-novice,window shopper,growth investor,system traders,day traders,on and on....As O,Neil says it takes a couple of years to learn the ropes, but once you catch on, you can make the types of gains you have heard--BUT NOT EVERY YEAR!!! Most people give up before they are seasoned enough to win.

Take all the advanced workshops-several times- if necessary for you to grasp the contents. That will be your tutoring/coaching. Yes it will cost you $15-20000.Then as O'Neil told me, make your trading approach your own by customizing to your weaknesses,strengths and expanding knowledge. They will give you all the tools you need for success.Try to do it on the cheap, skip steps, combine methodologies, before you know what you are doing, will result in your  failure to achieve the potential gains. (All those questions you posted will be answered as part of the tutoring process)

Don't look for a holy grail and be ready to work hard. Otherwise, just let someone else do it for you and go on to applying your time and money  to something you love to do.

Steve



12/22/2010 09:48 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by l (5095) Joined on 07/03/2010 Posts: 495
Steve - great answer! Not much to add beyond your reply, but I'll throw down a few more: As for me: I have been working on "my" version of CANSLIM for over 3 years, but trading CANSLIM for 10+ years total. I have made all of the mistakes. I'll probably make many more as the years go by ;-) The hardest part for me was figuring myself out as a trader & how to apply that to the CANSLIM methodolgy. My level of aggression in entering,getting on margin, holding times, profit goals (and living to them) dealing with losing streaks, selling on the way up, stopping out on the way down, etc. While all of us look at the same names (for the most part) the way we treat our trades differs greatly from trader to trader. What works for Steve may not work for me and what works for me may not work for you. I can't tell you how important the advanced courses are to your development as a trader. I took the stairs for many years when the elevator was there all along. I wish I didnt wait so long to jump into them. Do it. The meetups are great during your learning years. I would recommend reading HTMMIS's 2 x a year until all of the little pearls have soaked in as well. Also, you HAVE to do your homework. There are no short cuts. You have to EARN every piece to the puzzle and every now and then figure out that you have been doing it all wrong. This comes with the territory, Lastly, not every market works for CANSLIM type stocks. This last run since Dec 12th FTD (questionable call IMO) IBD100 stocks have underperformed the S&P 500 & the NASDAQ Composite and the big names have gone no where fast. You have to be patient enough to know when its not the time to jump in with both feet. When the CANSLIM names do perform though, it's usually in spectacular fashion and justifies all the hard work. Good luck and great trading. L:


12/31/2010 08:33 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by brad74 (1535) Joined on 06/16/2010 Posts: 114

@L - at what point should the chart school be taken - how much time trading before attending? Thanks for your reply. Brad



12/31/2010 09:45 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by TMalagis (7585) Joined on 04/27/2010 Posts: 759
Hi Brad, My recommendation would be to start the process. Many times people like to jump ahead and then end up asking questions that they should have learned earlier on. I suggest that you go through all of them sequentially. Map out a plan for yourself. Maybe you take class 1 and 2 only within a calendar year. If you can absorb the travel and such, perhaps you can manage to get through all three within a year. If I recall, I took the first in St Petersburg, FL. Took a day from vacation when I was there. The next, I took some 6 or 8 months after in Boston. Later, I took class 3 in NYC. I think the point should be to take them in order and do it at a pace that matches with your life. -Hope this is somewhat helpful, Tom


12/31/2010 10:12 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by l (5095) Joined on 07/03/2010 Posts: 495
Hey Brad, If I could do it all over again, I would go to the chart school as soon as I had a solid understanding of CANSLIM fundamentals and understood how IBD type stocks trade. Tom's post is on the money though - go to the Level 1 & 2 workshops & join and attend your local Meetup as well (all of which I did). For me that would have meant 3-4 years of trading CANSLIM. It might be more or less for you depending on how clever you are. It's tough to give you better guidance without knowing more about your background. I found Chart School to be immensely rewarding and well worth the time and investment. I'll be back again when it rolls into NJ next year :-) L:


01/06/2011 03:42 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by brad74 (1535) Joined on 06/16/2010 Posts: 114

L and Tom: thanks for your advice, I'm headed to Chart School on 2/5/11 in Garden Grove! Brad



02/06/2012 06:03 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by sgrosenbacher (20) Joined on 10/27/2011 Posts: 1

Brian,

I would be very interested in the notes from the charting class you took, if you would be so kind to share. 

Thanks,

 

Steve



02/07/2012 08:44 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by brad74 (1535) Joined on 06/16/2010 Posts: 114

Steve, I was headed to the live format, then found out that chart school is available in home study version, which was what I wanted in the first place because at the live presentations all you can do is record the audio.  What I felt was better was the visual too because in my mind you need to see the chart to put it all together.  Anyway - did the home study and I thought it was excellent - Charles and Mike are great instructors!  The advantage here is you have the CDs to replay when you want to revisit a topic!  My notes are written throughout what you`ll get with the kit and it's a huge book (THE BIG BOOK) that`s full of what are called Model Book stocks and you`ll want that as a permanent reference if you're serious about learning CAN SLIM.  So I would recommend that you bite the bullet and either get the home study deal or go to the live course because you need the whole package to understand all of the things that go into Chart School!

Best of luck to you!

Brad



02/17/2012 04:25 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by epag1 (75) Joined on 09/21/2010 Posts: 9

I am interested in the live seminars especially Course II, but none are close. Which Home Study course did you take?



02/17/2012 04:53 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by brad74 (1535) Joined on 06/16/2010 Posts: 114

Level 2 and Chart School.



02/17/2012 05:19 PM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by epag1 (75) Joined on 09/21/2010 Posts: 9

 I have been trading for a number of years and have used Canslim. What is your opinion of Course ll Home Study? Is it fairly basic or is there more that what you can read in O'Neil's books?

Also , how does the Home Study compare with the live seminar? Thanks



02/18/2012 04:02 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by brad74 (1535) Joined on 06/16/2010 Posts: 114

My opinion of Level 2 Home Course Study is that it is excellent and well worth what they're charging.  Now that said you have traded for awhile and have used CANSLIM so I don't know what you truly understand but I can tell you this that you need the courses to isolate the topics they talk about and if you haven't done the courses you need to.  Your added experience will just make what they're saying all the more clearer to you but try it out - it's like what, $700-800, if I remember correctly - when you've mastered that then step up to Chart School.

 

Second question - the course did not seem fairly basic to me but of course no 2 students have identical backgrounds etc.  There is a ton more to know than what is in HTMMIS and/or The Successful Investor or 24 Essential Lessons for Investment Success etc. and you have to approach it all from different angles and multiple times because as each layer of understanding is added you see different topics in a whole new light - if that makes sense to you?

 

Last question - I don't know how Home Study compares to the live seminar as I have yet to make it to a live seminar but as I said in previous post were my reasons for going the home study route.  To me it's a matter of how you learn and retain what you think you learned the best.

 

You're welcome and best of luck! Brad



02/18/2012 07:38 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by epag1 (75) Joined on 09/21/2010 Posts: 9

Brad      Thanks for the information.

Ed



12/31/2016 08:40 AM

Re: CANSLIM - MS; What has been working for others?
by Petro_Drlg_Engineer (1385) Joined on 06/18/2010 Posts: 230

This is from years ago, but still good advice as I continue to work to learn and improve my investing skills - results.  Now doing a Post Analysis of 2016 which ended up profitable, but still had a few mistakes that reduced my gains, so the learning continues!  ;-)

One great resource not listed above is the Petaluma Meet-Up Group and videos by Mr. Lee Tanner.

https://www.meetup.com/petalumaibd/

Mr. Tanner does an AMAZING job detailing each meeting with pdf and video files, that are freely shared on the website under MORE - FILES.  There are amazing videos of his CANSLIM Business Plan, steps and then details about each section.  Have started a directory on my computer, where am saving these for review offline, and to edit the monthly videos down to save each section as a separate training video.  These are proving to be a great resource and the cost is only my time.

Happy New Year and wishing all a Healthy, Wealthy and Happy 2017!

PDE