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Reposted from reply on my blog as this is likely a better place for general discussion.
Freely admit am still working to refine and
improve my investment skills. Do others exactly follow IBD - William
O'Neil CANSLIM system? Seems there has been lots of discussion on the
IBD forums, with some advising to follow it exactly, while others don't
seem to be able to generate very profitable investment returns with the
system. Others thoughts - results over several years - market cycles?
Previously was active on CoVestor.com, and followed a couple people
that reported they follow the IBD model. Peter is a former Microsoft
manager, and his verified return is a negative since inception. So am
struggling to justify putting in the time and effort to exactly learn
and follow a system that others aren't able to generate the reported
"annual gains of +100% per year", that IBD puts in the books and success
columns. Have others been able to routinely achieve a +100% per year
gain? Others thoughts or recommendations?
What percentage of serious investors, with a several hundred thousand to low million dollar portfolio; are able to routinely generate returns of greater than 50% per year? Greater than 25% What is the target for others? Is it per Ken Fisher of Forbes - simply to have a return greater than your benchmark. ie Greater than S&P 500,
Seems it's been reported that IBD tried and failed to manage a mutual
fund, and Gil Morales even authored a book with Mr. O'Neil, but his
reported investment management fund results were not that impressive
last time I checked. Anyone care to offer why the vastly different
results? Market conditions and first run was during one of the best
bull markets in history and lately hasn't been such a strong market?
Am actively working full time to improve my investment returns as
recently retired from petroleum consulting. Have either been very luck
or skillful as am up over 100% per year for 2009 and 2010, but have not
been investing per CANSLIM models. My portfolio has increased
sufficiently that now need to do more than buy and hold a few stocks.
Therefore since CANSLIM is widely respected am working to evaluate and
see if it's possible to have someone with more experience and skills
essentially mentor me. Am willing to put in the effort, and resources
as evidenced by an annual subscription to e-IBD and MarketSmith. Just
trying to be more diligent and build my own set of investing rules to
follow. Any recommendations - routines - suggestions are much
appreciate from anyone with years of proven success.
Seems IBD keeps changing as the IBD 100 will soon become the IBD 50,
but they are also now marketing the IBD Growth 250. So if less is
better, how is 250 better than 50? Or is this an attempt to develop
more products, in hopes to generate more net income? Seems the switch
from DGO to MS involved a roughly 25% increase in price. But is what's
good for IBD - MS, good for the individual investor? Not trying to
throw rocks, just trying to understand how others use these tools to
increase investment returns.
In today's (12-20-10) IBD, page 22, lower left is a ad for CAN SLIM Private Clients investment management fund, quoting "CAN SLIM® Private Clients isthat money managementcompany. We build and manageportfolios for clients using theCAN SLIM® System.".
They opened in 2006, but are quoting returns as follows:
Annual Rate of Return (2001 to 2009):
CANSLIM: 13.83% Net of fees
S&P 500: -.53%
My question: Do individual investors on here average significantly better than the roughly 14% gain?
Yes you sure can. Why leave yourself to someone else's whim, if your learning this and practicing it? Should you be new to IBD. Go slow, Learn constantly, and make use of the training as well as your new peer group. We always attempt to be helpful as well as respectful.
the CANSLIM method is legit...but not easy and not for everyone. my annualized average is a bit over 50% since 1997
Hi Petro, You know what they say. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and the same goes for trading. It really depends what you are comfortable with. I have an account with CANSLIM PC and they are not following O'Neils method to the "T", fundamentally , technically and on stops. I haven't achieved 50% a year yet but hope to. You have to start small and honestly for me I paper traded until I was comfortable and consistent. There's nothing wrong with taking what you learned in the past and apply it what you are doing now. I like IBD's method and think reading charts along with the fundamentals is a great strategy. Checkout Brigos Capital run by Kieran McDonough who taught for IBD. I took the second charting class and have notes on how to manage an account with 100k in it. Will look for it and post for you if you like Regards, Brian
MarketSmith and Investor’s Business Daily are affiliate companies, but our
operations are separate. The Growth 250 is not an Investor’s Business Daily
product; rather, it is a MarketSmith product. The Growth 250 was
designed to be a starting point for the research routine that includes a wide
variety of the characteristics of strength that we look for. The IBD 100, on the other
hand, was designed to capture the stocks with the greatest number of these
elements. While the IBD 100 is a very good
list, the MarketSmith Growth 250 is more comprehensive and it casts a wider net.
The list also fluctuates based on the overall health of the market. Lastly,
there is no additional cost on the switch from the Daily Graphs Complete Equity
Research Package to MarketSmith and, with MarketSmith, you receive much more
comprehensive data. If you have any further questions or would like additional
clarification, please contact us at 800-424-9033 or email us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
I went to my first O'Neil advanced workshop in 1995--taught entirely by William O'Neil and David Ryan. Subscribed to Daily Graphs thereafter in combination with my IBD subscription. I worked at it very part time until 2006-full time and paying my bills from my capital since then.
You have to be in the market applying the research techniques correctly at ther right time to make big money,know how to get out at the right time-sell rules -to conserve your gains and do it all over again as the market cycles. I f you want a formula, than CANSLIM success is not in the cards for you. One must deal with your own psychology as a trader along with constantly evolving market conditions
I have run an IBD Meetup since 2005 and see all types show up at the meetings-novice,window shopper,growth investor,system traders,day traders,on and on....As O,Neil says it takes a couple of years to learn the ropes, but once you catch on, you can make the types of gains you have heard--BUT NOT EVERY YEAR!!! Most people give up before they are seasoned enough to win.
Take all the advanced workshops-several times- if necessary for you to grasp the contents. That will be your tutoring/coaching. Yes it will cost you $15-20000.Then as O'Neil told me, make your trading approach your own by customizing to your weaknesses,strengths and expanding knowledge. They will give you all the tools you need for success.Try to do it on the cheap, skip steps, combine methodologies, before you know what you are doing, will result in your failure to achieve the potential gains. (All those questions you posted will be answered as part of the tutoring process)
Don't look for a holy grail and be ready to work hard. Otherwise, just let someone else do it for you and go on to applying your time and money to something you love to do.
@L - at what point should the chart school be taken - how much time trading before attending? Thanks for your reply. Brad
L and Tom: thanks for your advice, I'm headed to Chart School on 2/5/11 in Garden Grove! Brad
I would be very interested in the notes from the charting class you took, if you would be so kind to share.
Steve, I was headed to the live format, then found out that chart school is available in home study version, which was what I wanted in the first place because at the live presentations all you can do is record the audio. What I felt was better was the visual too because in my mind you need to see the chart to put it all together. Anyway - did the home study and I thought it was excellent - Charles and Mike are great instructors! The advantage here is you have the CDs to replay when you want to revisit a topic! My notes are written throughout what you`ll get with the kit and it's a huge book (THE BIG BOOK) that`s full of what are called Model Book stocks and you`ll want that as a permanent reference if you're serious about learning CAN SLIM. So I would recommend that you bite the bullet and either get the home study deal or go to the live course because you need the whole package to understand all of the things that go into Chart School!
Best of luck to you!
I am interested in the live seminars especially Course II, but none are close. Which Home Study course did you take?
Level 2 and Chart School.
I have been trading for a number of years and have used Canslim. What is your opinion of Course ll Home Study? Is it fairly basic or is there more that what you can read in O'Neil's books?
Also , how does the Home Study compare with the live seminar? Thanks
My opinion of Level 2 Home Course Study is that it is excellent and well worth what they're charging. Now that said you have traded for awhile and have used CANSLIM so I don't know what you truly understand but I can tell you this that you need the courses to isolate the topics they talk about and if you haven't done the courses you need to. Your added experience will just make what they're saying all the more clearer to you but try it out - it's like what, $700-800, if I remember correctly - when you've mastered that then step up to Chart School.
Second question - the course did not seem fairly basic to me but of course no 2 students have identical backgrounds etc. There is a ton more to know than what is in HTMMIS and/or The Successful Investor or 24 Essential Lessons for Investment Success etc. and you have to approach it all from different angles and multiple times because as each layer of understanding is added you see different topics in a whole new light - if that makes sense to you?
Last question - I don't know how Home Study compares to the live seminar as I have yet to make it to a live seminar but as I said in previous post were my reasons for going the home study route. To me it's a matter of how you learn and retain what you think you learned the best.
You're welcome and best of luck! Brad
Brad Thanks for the information.
This is from years ago, but still good advice as I continue to work to learn and improve my investing skills - results. Now doing a Post Analysis of 2016 which ended up profitable, but still had a few mistakes that reduced my gains, so the learning continues! ;-)
One great resource not listed above is the Petaluma Meet-Up Group and videos by Mr. Lee Tanner.
Mr. Tanner does an AMAZING job detailing each meeting with pdf and video files, that are freely shared on the website under MORE - FILES. There are amazing videos of his CANSLIM Business Plan, steps and then details about each section. Have started a directory on my computer, where am saving these for review offline, and to edit the monthly videos down to save each section as a separate training video. These are proving to be a great resource and the cost is only my time.
Happy New Year and wishing all a Healthy, Wealthy and Happy 2017!
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